Hacker News

pmontra said 2 months ago:

Did anybody try selling a service like this:

Your our own instance of Mattermost, Discord, or any well know service like those. We manage it for you on our servers, keep it running and up to date. You have admin access to the web app, not to the server. Pay per seat? You can get a db dump at any time and start it over somewhere else.

Basically it's what we get from Slack but we would really own the data. We must trust the service provider but those machines are already in somebody's else cloud, so not a big change.

luplex said 2 months ago:

This is the mission of element: https://ems.element.io/get-started?pk_vid=437a8cb738dee05a16...

They host a matrix.org server (Synapse) and a web client frontend (Element) on any domain. If you want to, you can also just host it yourself later.

Element is very good these days!

pmontra said 2 months ago:

Thanks. Looking at that registration form it seems that the domain to pick is actually a 3rd level domain, always ending in element.io.

Another requirement of my list would be "Use your own domain". That would increase portability. I didn't think about it.

agnivade said a month ago:

Mattermost has their cloud offering now!

It's basically Mattermost in Cloud with everything else remaining same. You don't get raw access to the database, but you can get an effective dump of your data any time.

ALittleLight said 2 months ago:

I like the concept, here is my feedback:

* Moving around is clumsy. If I'm in a channel, it's hard to know how to get back out or to the previous menus without hitting the back button.

* I tried to upload a gif and it just hung without responding. Not sure if the gif ever went through but I eventually got bored of waiting. If it was working - maybe a progress bar on uploading?

* Obviously spam is already a problem. The popular communities list, and the new communities list, are just people mashing their keyboards to create test communities.

* Channel title length needs to be limited. (See the channels with huge names that are ruining the "New Channels" page)

* How does "No censorship" work in terms of malicious content, spam, pornography, etc? If it works like it sounds, I'm not sure I'd like to browse it. Do I really want to see gifs of animals being tortured, shocksite images, etc. People self-promoting and trying to sell things - if people used it wouldn't this be a huge part of the content?

* How would you fall on the subreddits that reddit banned - e.g. jailbail, fatpeoplehate, racist groups? Communities that are not quite illegal, but clearly toxic. Doesn't it seem like by enabling such people to get together and coordinate you are helping to promote toxic behavior?

* The website became non-responsive for me at least once and I had to kill the tab. Looks like it was waiting on firebasestorage googleapis. A better failure mode let me know something had gone wrong, or load as much as possible, without just crashing the tab.

erikfiala said 2 months ago:

Thanks for the feedback!

You brought up very good points and yes, we are concerned with the same problem you're bringin up. In the future, we want communities to self-police themselves, but for that, people on Everchat need adequate tools, which we haven't even start building yet.

The issue of non-responsivity became apparent when someone (2 hours into launch) tried to crash the site with the unlimited title length :D This should already be hotfixed, so the waiting times shouldn't be that long! :)

Ndymium said 2 months ago:

How will you prevent the site turning into another Voat / image board? Or will you embrace being a home to that type of content? They are happy to police themselves, but the result of that policing is of course representative of the most extremely racist and horrid views as they are not accepted elsewhere. And most people won't want to be associated with such content, so they will avoid the site.

erikfiala said 2 months ago:

Hello hackers! Everchat is finally here!

During the past year, we were working hard on making Everchat happen. Today, we're proud to present you with the first public version of it!

We're looking forward to seeing what channels you'll create, what topics you'll talk about, and what we can improve and build to make Everchat better for you.

Features in this launch:

  - Account creation
  - Your and others' profiles
  - Create a public channel
  - Create a thread
  - Reply
  - Upvote and downvote
  - @mention, #hashtag, !channel
  - Earn karma
  - Channel members overview
  - Share (copy link)
  - Search (channels and people)
  - Email notifications

If you have any feature requests, just reach out to us via the https://everch.at/feature-requests channel.

If you want to leave any other feedback, let us know here in the comment section below, contact us via email or Twitter, or the best way is to tell us in the https://everch.at/feedback channel.

pgt said 2 months ago:

From the About page (https://everch.at/about):

> "We promise never to give any of your private or personally identifiable information to 3rd parties."

>"Everchat is censorless, but we reserve rights to take down any subject to criminal activity."

How will you reconcile privacy with the "Basic human right of Internet freedom" and takedown requests from authoritarian governments against dissidents who break local speech laws?

How will you handle NSFW posts?

According to the Terms & Conditions (https://everch.at/legal), Everchat JSA is governed by the laws of Slovakia, but I am not familiar with Slovakian free speech laws and liability for platforms.

erikfiala said 2 months ago:

> "How will you reconcile privacy with the "Basic human right of Internet freedom" and takedown requests from authoritarian governments against dissidents who break local speech laws?"

Hopefully we can decentralize the platform in the way that we will be able to back-track history (once we open-source on GitHub).

> "How will you handle NSFW posts?"

Just like on Reddit, there will be a Settings toggle to show/hide them.

mathnmusic said 2 months ago:

Why create a new app instead of simply running a matrix.org server instance?

underlines said 2 months ago:

Hi Erik,

The app looks clean and useful. It's a no-bullshit approach to a digital free speech space. Could be useful for example in my country of choice: I live in Thailand and we have a democracy movement that faces real threats form the monarchy and government.

I read your legal docs. They are pretty clear from what I understand. What's not so clear to me are 3 things:

1. How does everchat protect me? I am in Thailand and breaking local laws like talking about the Monarchy can land me in Jail or void my Visa and Work permit.

2. I thought an Impressum is mandatory in GDPR, it looks a bit shady to me, having an app and not seeing an Impressum with a real address and company name.

3. What's everchat's buisness model, and how are you gonna make money? (If part of this includes using my personal data, I am fine with it, as long as I exactly understand how you gonna use it.)

3np said 2 months ago:

The three main pitch headlines under "About":

> Basic human right: We at Everchat believe that Internet freedom is one of our and our users’ fundamental human rights.

> Data anonymity: We promise never to give any of your private or personally identifiable information to 3rd parties.

> No censorship: Everchat is censorless, but we reserve rights to take down any subject to criminal activity.

Given the values you communicate, what (apart from pinky promises) do you do differently to assure users that these are fulfilled? How do you avoid making yourselves a SPoF?

Is the protocol open? Can I self-host? Will sources be made available and if so under what license?

nextaccountic said 2 months ago:

Is this something like a reddit clone?

erikfiala said 2 months ago:

For now yes, but we want to take a different path later on. :)

nextaccountic said 2 months ago:

Such as? I would like to hear about this! (Do you have it written in a blog post somewhere?)

erikfiala said 2 months ago:

we don't sorry - it's a lot to work on since we're just two guys working on this project :D

you can check out our PH post's last image, there are couple of things we're planning in the future https://www.producthunt.com/posts/everchat-1-0

kevsim said 2 months ago:

For my startup [0] we have a slack community where we ask people to come engage with us and give us feedback on the product and how it can work better for them. We love it. Teams usually want their own private channel so they can discuss things more openly with us, post screenshots that may have stuff they don't want spread around publicly (we're a product management tool/issue track so teams has sensitive stuff stored with us). The only issue we have is some people have a lot of slack workspaces already and don't want to add yet another (which is totally understandable coming from a guy with 10 or so Slack workspaces right now).

Does Everchat have ambitions to be this kind of private community where companies can interact with their users, etc or is the target something else?

0: https://kitemaker.co, the super fast, hotkey-driven product management tool/issue tracker that has deep integrations to GitHub, Figma, Slack, etc.

protoduction said 2 months ago:

Have you considered something like Discourse[0] for this usecase, or are you looking for something more minimal? I'm trying to understand the usecase better.

[0]: https://www.discourse.org/

kevsim said 2 months ago:

Hadn't really considered something like a forum TBH. We just want a place where people can come and give us feedback on our product, potentially in private so other teams can't see what they're saying. People often expose things they're working on or at the very least their way of working to us and that's not something they necessarily want open to the public.

Slack is free which is really appealing. But it is a barrier for some people because they don't want to open another slack workspace (slack fatigue).

We also integrate to Discord and like that a lot so that's one option for us for sure.

Multicomp said 2 months ago:

If you used something like topicbox, you might be able to get a workflow of "email feedback to private generated on demand email, have a private link to a no-login-for-customers web interface to follow that convo"?

erikfiala said 2 months ago:

Thanks for the feedback! Yes, we're looking into this usecase. We're planning to create private communities, where only people with token have access to. And later on, expand on the concept of threading. How does that sound?

pcmill said 2 months ago:

Your landing page does not really tell me anything about this product. Why should I join? What can you do on Everchat?

geoah said 2 months ago:

Amazing work :D Do keep it up!

Couple of notes:

    - Loving the UI.
    - Home should say what is everchat, features, differentiating factors.
    - Peek into "popular channels" without login.
    - Sign up email comes from a random firebase domain, not the same as the welcome.
    - Haven't managed to post a comment, getting 500 on a `s?l=dataLayer` resource (chrome macOS).
    - Ability to enable notifications (email and/or html5) on specific channels.
    - A monthly or so email about new features, stats, or changes would be nice. I don't think I'd use it right now but if it managed to get traction I'd be up for it.
    - Maybe: Invite only rooms? Discord style.
erikfiala said 2 months ago:

Thanks for the feedback!

> "Loving the UI." <3

> "Home should say what is everchat, features, differentiating factors." Will add this to our backlog. We're getting this request a lot!

> "Peek into "popular channels" without login." Same as the above

> "Sign up email comes from a random firebase domain, not the same as the welcome." Yeah we know about this, we requested a custom domain but Google is taking its time :D

> "Haven't managed to post a comment, getting 500 on a `s?l=dataLayer` resource (chrome macOS)." Don't really know what's going on here, but will look into it.

> "Ability to enable notifications (email and/or html5) on specific channels." Great idea!!!

> "A monthly or so email about new features, stats, or changes would be nice. I don't think I'd use it right now but if it managed to get traction I'd be up for it." Monthly email update is setup :)

> "Maybe: Invite only rooms? Discord style." Private channels that are accessible only for people with a token are on our roadmap. :)

erikfiala said 2 months ago:

Sorry everyone,

we had to go into a temporary maintenance mode right now, because we had too much load and we weren’t ready for it. We'll update you as soon as we're up and running again.

Btw, I'm reading all the feedback, and it's highly appreciated!

chrismorgan said 2 months ago:

Is this why the entire site is not working? I’m just getting a blank screen once I run it in a JavaScript-enabled environment (without which I get “You need to enable JavaScript to run this app.”).

Kudos said 2 months ago:

What do you imagine maintenance mode means exactly?

chrismorgan said 2 months ago:

The term “maintenance mode” specifically implies an orderly disablement. I expect anything it applies to to receive some sort of message as to what’s going on if you try to use it.

Unless otherwise specified, I assume that it will be applying to an app, but not to a marketing website—because these are almost always treated as separate things, and shifting the app into maintenance mode doesn’t take down the marketing site (even if it’s on the same infrastructure).

I expect URLs like https://everch.at and https://everch.at/about to be part of a marketing website, because that’s almost always what they are.

What I observe is that the marketing site part (presuming I’m right about it being marketing site—I still haven’t seen the page) seems to all be there and responding fine, loading its unreasonably large megabytes of JavaScript rather than just serving plain sensible HTML, but that it doesn’t actually render anything. There are no JavaScript errors in the console; the only potential hint is that it’s getting a 503 from wss://everchat-server.herokuapp.com. But is that the cause? It’s not at all normal for a marketing site to break if a WebSocket connection fails. What’s it trying to do? I have no idea. So I give up and ask. :-)

If trying to take down the entire thing, I’d hope for all requests to the website to yield a 503 response with some kind of “Everchat got overloaded, be back in a day or two” simple HTML response.

erikfiala said 2 months ago:

Well we had to shut down, because of traffic we weren't ready for. :D Will probably be up in couple of days. Need to hotfix this.

Kudos said 2 months ago:

Don't get me wrong, I understood what that meant. I'm puzzled that the person I was replying to seemed not to.

XCSme said a month ago:

I think it's confusing that it only shows a blank page, it could at least show a message with maintenance or something.

It's not like the server is not working, it does indeed return HTML/JS, only that it doesn't do anything.

riantogo said a month ago:

The website doesn't load. I was curious to see it in action. From what is described in the comments it sounds similar to my covid side project https://discoflip.com (not quiet ready yet, but if you had any words of advice it would be great to hear)

kevsim said 2 months ago:

Had a few issues creating a new channel:

- filled in the new channel form

- had to sign up

- put in email. woops that was the login form. Clicked log in, email disappeared

- refilled form, got email. Email says "evechat" not "everchat"

- followed link. channel wasn't created, had to do it again

erikfiala said 2 months ago:

Thanks for the "evechat" issue lol, just fixed it.

And yeah this flow sucks. We'll be looking into it ASAP, as many people already struggled with it.

Thanks!! <3

fredley said 2 months ago:

I put in my email address and hit 'sign up'. It cleared my email address so I had to put it in again. It then went to another screen where I had to put in a username, and my email address _again_!

fredley said 2 months ago:

While I'd use this, how do I persuade (less privacy conscious) others to join this instead of a Facebook Group on the platform they're already on?

dancemethis said 2 months ago:

It says it's to build a community, but I don't see the source code anywhere.

If the platform is proprietary, it is oppressive - and therefore there is no community. Just prisoners sharing a cell.

tomtompl said 2 months ago:

The magic link to login doesnt work

retrofuturism said 2 months ago:

The magic link invited me to log in to my EveChat account. I was disappointed to find out nobody was talking about Eve Online.

erikfiala said 2 months ago:

LOL we haven't noticed this :D It must've been there for a long time. Will fix that ASAP. Thanks!

Sirikon said 2 months ago:

> We promise never to give any of your private or personally identifiable information to 3rd parties.

Promises mean nothing nowadays.

Cthulhu_ said 2 months ago:

Nope, I'd like to see that claim encoded in strict legalese, along with open source code, public pentest results, and a secure way to report found security (= data breach) issues.

But the strict legalese isn't going to happen because it would only take one data breach for the company to be destroyed by lawsuits. There's always a clause in there somewhere.

tonyjstark said 2 months ago:

What is the monetization for the platform? As soon as ads play a role, the promise is broken.

erikfiala said 2 months ago:

There will be a premium account that unlocks more features, like creation of private channels, that only people with token can get access to. :)

charliebrownau said 2 months ago:

Everchat uses google, gstatic , cloudflare (Domains listed on ublock/noscript)



Hard to go past IRC, old school forums and XMMP still in 2020